Carnosaur (Adam Simon #3.1)
Conducted by Giallo Julian — 05/02/2025
(modified for readability)
We finally made it, folks! The moment we’ve all been waiting for — CARNOSAUR! I know you’re as excited as I am! Director Adam Simon and I spent THREE HOURS talking about this masterpiece of creature feature cinema, so for the first time in this series, I’m actually cutting the interviews into parts. This is PART ONE of THREE. Don’t worry, there’s PLENTY in here to tide you over until PART TWO. With that said, let’s make like a flesh-hungry dinosaur and tear in!
“A genetically manipulated and very hungry dinosaur escapes from a bioengineering company and wreaks havoc on the local desert town. A security guard and a girl environmentalist try to stop both it and the company's doomsday bioweapon.”
Interview:
Giallo Julian: “Here we are! This is going to be the BIG ONE. We’re talking CARNOSAUR!”
Adam Simon: “The end of my [Roger] Corman era.”
GJ: “Yes!”
AS: “As Roger used to say — “The most successful film of his entire career.”
GJ: “And you know what? I believe it! I mean, $1.8 million, right? Somewhere in that ballpark?”
AS: “He ultimately made so much more than that because of the foreign sales on it, and the video sales, and that it’s still out there. Then the fact that he squeezed [Carnosaur] 2, [Carnosaur] 3, Dinosaur Island, and all this shit [out of it].”
GJ: “He was able to milk it for all its worth. He did [The Haunted Sea], where he took one of the suits from the second movie, or the first movie, and… that took place on a boat, with a weird snake head. He just used everything he could out of that movie! [laughs]”
AS: “[laughs] That’s right.”
GJ: “He made his money back.
“But before we get to Carnosaur, I remember the last time… you mentioned you wanted to talk about how John Landis was involved in Body Chemistry 2 [: The Voice of a Stranger].”
AS: “Oh yeah! So John, who’s… a wonderful guy, super supportive of young filmmakers, and a true Monster Kid turned horror fan.
“John is, in many ways, responsible for the fact that I had to make Body Chemistry 2, because remember… after I finished Brain Dead… Roger was already prepping based on the idea I’d had — what would become the first Body Chemistry — but I said, “Look, I don’t want to do it.” Because, in fact, it was Landis who had seen Brain Dead, and also knew the short that got me launched, and he wanted to meet me. We had met, and he… invited me to come collaborate with him and Bruce [Davison]... on what would have been a complete revision of Willard, the classic rat movie.
“We spent, like, a year trying to make that movie, trying to get it made in various places under his deal at Universal [Pictures]. Finally, after a year, it was just not happening, and Roger said, “Hey, you still owe me a couple of pictures. Why don’t you come back and make another movie?” And I said, “Well, okay, fine. What do you got?” He said, “Body Chemistry 2.” So it was kind of a running gag — I [would] say to John, “I would have already made this movie, [but] now I got to make the sequel because I was off running with you. You’re going to have to pay me back by being in this movie.”
“He’s the hilariously incompetent advice-radio guy… When he’s fired, it’s Claire who’s brought in to replace him. So he’s great. He’s really fun in it.
“He then… played a very important part in the film — The American Nightmare — that I did, the documentary… He’s one of the main folks I interview in there, and is great, but it’s also he who reached out to both [John] Carpenter and [David] Cronenberg, who he knew well. Both of whom were reluctant initially to do it, because — for various reasons — they were sick of talking about that stage in their career. [They] didn’t want to have a GoreZone/Fangoria approach to it. They were just over that. It was John [Landis] who called them and said, “No, I know this guy. It’s going to be a different kind of conversation.” Also, I think [Martin] Scorsese — who had been in my Sam Fuller movie [The Typewriter, the Rifle, & the Movie Camera] — reached out at the same time to Cronenberg — who was the most reluctant — to say, “No, no, you want to have a conversation with this guy. It’s going to be really interesting.” And it was, so I have lots of gratitude for John.
“So yes, that’s why he’s in Body Chemistry 2. [laughs]”
GJ: “[as Simon to Landis] “You owe me a favor!” [laughs]”
AS: “That’s right! He enjoyed that kind of thing, though. He always loved [doing that], because he came out making those kinds of movies himself, you know?”
GJ: “Oh yeah.”
AS: “The Kentucky Fried Movie.”
GJ: “Oh, for sure! Animal House, all that kind of stuff. Man, I mean, he was great [in Body Chemistry 2].
“[paraphrasing Landis from Body Chemistry 2] “You’ve heard [the saying], “Today is the first day of the rest of your life?” Well, today is the worst day of the rest of your life! It’s all uphill from here!”
AS: “[laughs] Exactly. He’s one of my favorite things in that movie.”
GJ: “Oh yeah, he was great. I was surprised to see him. I was watching it… like, “Wait a minute. I know those glasses and that beard anywhere!”
AS: “[laughs] Exactly.”
GJ: “Very distinct.
“Now, let’s get to Carnosaur!
“Actually, no, we’re not going to Carnosaur just yet… For the last two interviews, we discussed your love of sci-fi, we discussed your love of noir, and this time, I want to discuss your background with monster movies. You mentioned before that you’re a “Monster Kid.”
“So I was wondering what your relationship to horror is, specifically creature features. What films hooked you into the subgenre?”
AS: “I came at the tail end of what’s often generationally referred to as the “Monster Kids Era.” Like, say, John [Landis] — who’s probably fifteen years older than me — is on the older edge of that generation, and I’m at the very end of it. I think for most of us — from John’s generation, and Joe Dante, and those guys through to me — literally, we grew up with there being a TV show called Creature Features. Which all had to do with the fact that the Universal… horror films — Dracula, Frankenstein, Bride of Frankenstein, The Wolf Man, that whole run up through, say, The Creature from the Black Lagoon — suddenly were moved onto TV in a way that hadn’t been available before.
“They got packaged as this group of films… so a lot of us kids grew up with the idea that on Friday or Saturday night, there was this thing called Creature Features that was going to show you these classic horror movies. So I have to say, for me… the attachment was precisely to that pantheon, as it were — Dracula, Frankenstein, the Wolf Man, up to the Creature. Because the Creature is still Universal, but it was starting to be something else, right?”
GJ: “Yeah, that’s way at the tail end.”
AS: “At the same time, I certainly grew up with the Godzilla movies.”
GJ: “Oh, hell yeah!”
AS: “But it took a long time, I have to admit, to appreciate them. I appreciate them probably more now than I did then, you know? They were not really my jam… I grew up not really liking all those giant creature movies of the 50s and early 60s.”
“I have to admit, also, I was not necessarily ever, like, a dinosaur kid. In a way, I think lots of kids — that’s like a whole obsession that they have. I saw it with my own kids, and I think it was probably very true in your generation. Obviously, Jurassic Park and Carnosaur really fed that, but it was always there. Whereas for me, I didn’t need dinosaurs because I had monsters. You know what I mean? But [when] the chance to actually, finally… do [a dinosaur film came], sure.
“So yeah, I guess it was more classic, supernatural type of monsters rather than the mad science types of monsters. There was just this whole run of everything made gigantic, I guess because of Godzilla and others. You had a giant rabbit movie, a giant beetles movie.”
GJ: “And a gila monster!”
AS: Probably the only one of them I ever really loved — and I loved it as a kid — that scared the shit out of me — and I still like it, and it is an influence on Carnosaur — is the movie, Them!”
GJ: “Them! is fantastic! That’s one of my favorites!”
AS: “Really, really good. It really holds up. There’s a couple of others like that. They’re all shot in those same kind of high desert not far from here, these very bleak settings, and you get these giant creatures ambling through them. So I would suppose Them! was in my mind for sure.”
GJ: “Well, Them! was pretty much a police procedural that just happened to have giant ants in it. You barely see them for the whole movie. It’s really good.”
AS: “Absolutely! That’s also part of why I have the whole running thing in Carnosaur with the sheriff.”
GJ: “Oh yeah!”
AS: “Like, “Wait, where are these bodies coming from?””
GJ: “Harrison Page. We’ll get to that!”
AS: “I haven’t seen him in years. I just saw him in an old episode of something. I think it was Grey’s Anatomy… I’m like, Oh my god! It’s Harrison! How the fuck are you? He’s great! He’s a really good guy, too.”
GJ: “I believe he does a lot of TV now. I remember [seeing] a story… in the Carnosaur book that Joey Palinkas did, where he interviewed [Page] about Raptor. He’s like, “Yeah, I hated that. I was there for two scenes, and then they just used a bunch of scenes from Carnosaur.”
AS: “I didn’t even know that they brought him back for that. Geez.”
GJ: “Yeah, Corman… got [Jim] Wynorski to bring him back for two scenes, and [Page] thought he was going to be in the whole movie. Which I guess he was, but only in clips.”
AS: “That would be classic Roger. Like, “Well, if we use these scenes of his from Carnosaur, by [Actor’s] Guild rules… we’re going to have to pay him anyway. So instead, let’s bring him in and pay him as a day player for two days, and then we can use all that shit.” Probably Harrison would have made more money if he hadn’t come and done the new days, and just made them pay him for the old stuff.”
GJ: “Exactly. They probably left that part out, though. They’re like, “Oh yeah, you’re going to be in this. Ignore the fact you’re wearing the same exact costume from Carnosaur.”
“Well, that’s interesting, because as I said, Them! — very, very good movie. I can see the inspiration from it for Carnosaur, with it being… not just a monster going out and killing things. It does have that, but it also has the more investigative part. There’s a lot more character building, and I think that really works.
“The next question I have is —”
AS: “Wait! By the way, the one exception to what I was saying before is that — of course — we all still worship the original King Kong.
GJ: “Oh, for sure!”
AS: “That’s the ultimate creature movie. That’s a huge part of us all. That was the one giant creature movie that every time it came on TV as a kid, I would be sitting right there and watching that.”
GJ: “I mean, you have great effects by Willis O’ Brien.”
AS: “Oh my god, incredible!”
GJ: “M.C. Cooper directing it. Have all the great actors in it, like Fay Wray. I would say that without King Kong, the [giant] monster genre — I won’t say it wouldn’t have ever existed, because King Kong was built off of The Lost World from back in 1925. Someone would have eventually done it, but King Kong is definitely the catalyst for literally every giant monster movie that came out [afterwards].”
AS: “I think that’s true.”
GJ: “So next question.
“How did you become involved in the production of Carnosaur? And once you were on board, how did you initially prepare to tackle the film? I know you read Harry Adam Knight’s — aka John Brosnan — original novel, and that you considered it a little “cheesy,” if I remember correctly from a quote way back in the day. Did the book factor into the production — other than the basic concept — at all? How much creative control did you have over the film’s story?”
AS: “I had 100% creative control. That was part of the deal with Roger.
“So this is post-Body Chemistry 2. At this point, unlike the very beginning of our conversations with Brain Dead… I’m starting to work pretty regularly as a writer on bigger Hollywood things — as a rewrite guy, as a script doctor, and I also had sold a couple of pitches and was writing scripts. I was not looking to do another Corman movie.
“Roger called me up to say, “No, no, no! This is something really special that I’m saving up for you! You’re the guy to do it! Yada, yada, yada!”
“It was special to him for lots of reasons. He had been planning it for some time, because he had went out and bought the rights to Brosnan’s novel. That’s John Brosnan — the real guy who wrote under the name Harry Adam Knight.”
GJ: “HAK.”
AS: “Exactly! HAK. He was actually a lovely guy. He’s no longer with us, but he was a really funny, smart, interesting guy who horror fans — like the kind of folks who follow you and your work — should know, because he was one of the pioneers of writing good books about monster movies, and horror movies, and sci-fi movies under his real name.
“So Roger said, “Look, I bought the rights to this book.” He had bought the rights to the book when Jurassic Park — the novel — came out. He probably knew the novel was coming out before it came out, because he was actually friends with [Michael] Crichton. He knew he was going to want to do something in the same way he had done Piranha in relation to Jaws, [or] Battle Beyond the Stars in relation to Star Wars.
“He knew this was going to be huge, and he wanted to be prepared… Everybody was going to say, “Oh, here’s your knockoff to Jurassic Park.” He knew in ADVANCE he wanted to be able to say, “Oh, no, no! This is our adaptation of this book, which was published BEFORE Jurassic Park!”
GJ: “Got that flex!”
AS: “Right! He’s got that flex… He had a famous interview with Connie Chung — the same one that I was angry with him at, because he lied about how much money he spent — but I do remember him… saying that he knew Crichton, and Crichton was a very honorable guy, and he was sure that Crichton didn’t MEAN to borrow so much from Brosnan’s novel. [laughs]”
GJ: “[laughs] Oh yeah, I watched that!
“It’s funny, because those two novels — Carnosaur AND Jurassic Park — were predated by a Judge Dredd story from, like, back in ‘78 that had the exact same premise.”
AS: “Oh, that’s interesting. I don’t know that I’m [familiar], and I’m a big fan of those British comics, and of Judge Dredd in particular.
“So when he brought it up to me, he said, “Look, this is going to be the biggest thing I’ve done. I’m going to spend more money than I ever spent.” Obviously, it wasn’t going to be a Jurassic Park-type budget, but I think he said, “It’s going to be at least $5 million. Maybe we can get more.”
“He already had Diane Ladd attached — who was a very important and interesting actor — and he said, “You’re going to be free to do whatever you want as long as it’s called Carnosaur, and we’re going to say it’s based on the novel.” He actually said to me, “Don’t bother reading the novel.” And I was like, “You’ve already paid for it, I want to read it. Anyway, it sounds fun.” I had actually read one other Harry Adam Knight novel. I think it was The Fungus, or something like that. That was really fun.
“So when I read [Carnosaur], I went deep into… the chicken side of it. [laughs] Though to be fair to Brosnan… he was a science guy, too. He was a science journalist… who read a lot of science fiction. His science in that book is actually very clever, and — arguably — more accurate and believable than Crichton’s.”
GJ: “For sure, because chickens are dinosaurs. Frogs aren’t dinosaurs.”
AS: “That’s right! And you got to remember, this was the period where — you take this for granted, but I remember living through this — it was a big revolution in how we thought about and visualized dinosaurs. When scientists said, “Oh, wait a second. Dinosaurs are functionally not giant lizards.” Which the name implies, right?”
GJ: “Mhm. Terrible lizards.”
AS: “Which is what everybody thought they were. They’re really… related to birds, and that changed everything about how we saw dinosaurs. They were brightly colored, some of them had feathers, and that — in fact — their [descendants] were still walking the earth. Every time you take a look at a goose’s foot, or the talons of an eagle, things like that, you go, “Oh yeah, that really does look like a dinosaur!” Brosnan was all over that. As was Crichton in a way — particularly with the Velociraptors — but not with getting the DNA from amber and all that sort of stuff.
“We talked last time about Richard Genter — who was the editor of Body Chemistry 2 — he kind of mentored me. I learned so much from him. He was such a grizzled, older guy who’d been through so much with [Sam] Peckinpah and other folks.
“While we were making Body Chemistry 2, Richard showed me… his student film. And he was an old guy, so his student film had been made right after he got back from serving in the military in the Vietnam era. He didn’t go to Vietnam… He was a guy on the nuclear submarines in the Arctic and stuff, just floating around and crazy shit like that. When he came back… he used the G.I. Bill and went to San Francisco State, which had a great film program. Still has a good film program!”
“So his thesis film as a student — I’m going to guess this was in ‘69 or something, very late 60s, very early 70s — he made a short documentary. I guess it’s a documentary. It’s really more of a film essay… called Chickens: A Process. Which was a remarkable short film that actually… got his career as an editor and other things started, because it was so beautifully done. It is a beautiful, harrowing, black-and-white documentary. It’s not silent — because it has the sound of what’s happening — but it has no talking in it… no explanations. It just follows the chicken slaughtering and processing process, from the live chickens, to how they’re carried [and] executed, to how they end up sliced-up and wrapped in plastic, and all that stuff at the end.”
GJ: “This is sounding familiar.”
AS: “I had already seen that, and thought it was genius… So when Roger brought Carnosaur to me, and then — fortunately — I did read the book, and realized the whole thing about chickens… one of the first things I thought of was… Chickens: A Process. I thought, Fuck, this is really cool! Not only are we going to… recreate that, but let’s use Richard’s film!”
GJ: “Oh shit!”
AS: “That footage you see — particularly in those opening credits — actually is the footage from Richard’s film… made twenty-five years before that.”
GJ: “The beginning! Yes, the first thing we see.”
AS: “It was paid for initially by the chicken processing plant industry, but… when they saw the movie — were like, “No, we don’t want ANYBODY to see it!” [laughs] It was meant to be… what they used to call an “industrial,” to help promote the process. They took one look at it and said, “No, we don’t want anybody to see this.” Because when you watch that, it’s pretty hard to eat chicken again. [laughs]”
GJ: “[laughs] I remember as a kid watching it, being like, Wow, these effects are really good!” It wasn’t until later I learned, Oh yeah, they look so good because it’s REAL!”
AS: “It’s all real! And not only is that all real, but we then show the most disturbing part — and we can come back and talk about this later when we’re talking about production — but to me, the hardest, most grueling part of the shoot was when we… shot at the chicken processing plant… where they had chickens in these giant places. Those scenes — like when Clint [Howard] gets his head pulled off — that’s actually at a real place.”
GJ: “Oh man, that’s like method acting for locations!” [- Giallo Julian, Writer/Film Journalist, 05/02/2025]
AS: “That’s right! That’s real. It also went to something I’ve always been a big believer of [how] — and I talk [about it] with students when I do my world-building class up at Loyola [Marymount University] — the more fantastical the ideas you’re going to ultimately get to, the more you want to tether them to the real. Not even to “realism,” but to the “REAL.” Then your balloon can fly high because it’s tied to this thing. So it was part of my notion from the get-go, Let’s deal really realistically with the chicken processing process… Courtesy of Richard’s fantastic,rhythmic cutting and footage of it. That way, it’s going to be grounded, and gritty, and real, in a way.”
GJ: “It sets the tone. You’re sitting there like, Hey, this isn’t Jurassic Park, where it’s going to be all fantastical. This is the real world. This is what happens. That chicken nugget you had? This is where it came from!”
AS: “That’s right, and at the same time… it was allowing me to go back into stuff I was into in Brain Dead — particularly my love of Cronenberg, and that kind of treatment of science. Also, the models of [Carnosaur] were very much the movies that Joe Dante and John Sayles had made for Roger in the 70s — Piranha, for example — which always had this kind of social critique built into them.
“They were radical movies, so there was also that notion playing in there. [One of the] other two big influences that fed into it was, of course — I hadn’t met him yet, but a few years later, we would get to know each other very well because of American Nightmare — George Romero… There’s a lot of The Crazies, which is now well-known, but at the time was the forgotten Romero movie that he made after Night of the Living Dead, but before Dawn of the Dead.”
GJ: “Even in my generation. I heard about it, [but] no one else knew what I was talking about. That was [the] 2000s. It wasn’t until the remake came out that people were like, “Oh, there’s a [Romero] movie that’s not Night of the Living Dead [or its sequels]?”
AS: “That’s right! It’s really great. So that whole image of the guys in [hazmat] suits coming into town and just killing everybody — that’s very much a tip of the hat to George.
“At the same time, I was deeply into one of my favorite science fiction writers of all time… James Tiptree, Jr. — who actually was a woman named Alice Sheldon. Brilliant, brilliant writer, and if your readers don’t know her work, they must get their hands on a “best of” collection of her short stories. They are horrifying, funny, just some of the greatest mid-century science fiction ever.”
GJ: “I think she has her own award.”
AS: “She had a really unique way of dealing with apocalyptic situations. She had a couple of stories in particular — Last Flight of Dr. Ain, The Screwfly Solution — that dealt… not with the post apocalypse, or with everything blowing up, but with what Crichton got into. I’m sure Crichton read her. The kind of, “What are these things leading into this apocalyptic situation?” I was so into those.
“Not only did I want to take what was already in John [Brosnan]’s book, but [also] add some other elements to it, to give it that feeling and my tip of the hat to where I was being inspired from. Which was — of course — Diane Ladd’s character is actually named… “Dr. Jane Tiptree.” My nod certainly to James Tiptree — or Alice Sheldon.
“What’s not at all in John’s book is the contagious biohazard. That… was a way of going, Okay, I’m not just getting a poke at Critchton’s Jurassic Park — I’m going to poke at Andromeda Strain! Which is my favorite of the Crichton books, and my favorite of the movies.”
GJ: “Fantastic book!”
AS: “It’s a great book! That movie is still a great movie. Scared the shit out of me! So there’s a bit of that, Huh! They’re making dinosaurs, but accidentally also setting off an Andromeda Strain type of situation? Then getting into all this Cronenbergian birth stuff.”
“I got to really have fun with creating the Tiptree character. I like these characters, and [the author] Tiptree had a few who really have a vision behind what they’re doing. It was kind of ahead of its time, in the sense that it was resembling some of the really extreme environmentalist discourse… that is much more common now. This idea of, like, “Maybe it’d be better if there weren’t people. Maybe we’re just a problem for the Earth and the rest of the creatures.”
“And that’s part of what ends up happening with Tiptree [character], right? She’s convinced… that we’re an accident of the asteroid collision and evolution, but we’re a mistake. We’re not good for the Earth… She wants to set in motion a process that’s not only going to bring back what should have been the kings and queens of the Earth — the dinosaurs — but along the way is also going to get rid of us.
“Which is also kind of a Lovecraftian idea. “Let’s return the Earth to its original, ancient masters!”
GJ: “Almost like a Halloween 3: Season of the Witch pagan ritual. Where it’s like, “We’re going to sacrifice the women to the dinosaurs by having them give birth to the serpents of old!”
AS: “[laughs] That’s right! “And to bring forth the NEW!”
GJ: [laughs] Oh man. I was going to get to that later, but we’ll go ahead and discuss it a bit now.
“That whole plot point of — just — a virus that makes women give birth to dinosaurs.”
AS: “[laughs]”
GJ: “It is SO much insanity, yet I feel it’s so amazing and creative… I haven’t seen anything like it before, and I haven’t seen anything like it since.”
AS: “Which is surprising, because the technology that I was imagining then, we actually have now. Between CRISPR, and the idea you can go in and cut-and-paste and splice DNA strands in this way, but equally, the idea that viruses could be carriers of genetic alteration.
“As always with these things — as you can see from the room we’re in [gestures to office full of books] — I get too into the research of it. I did a deep dive [in] — ‘91, ‘92, whenever that was — into the whole idea of viruses. What the fuck are viruses? Are they animals? Are they creatures? What are they?
GJ: “They’re alive, kind of?”
AS: “Are they living? They are kind of living. Do they have intelligence? They kind of do.
“I mean, there’s all kinds of really interesting things about them, and people were just beginning to suspect that they had a role to play in evolution. So the idea is that that’s also part of what Tiptee was doing, and that’s the whole point when we keep periodically cutting back to one of my favorite people, my favorite performances — Ned Bellamy — who plays the head of DARPA, or whatever. The Eunice guy.”
GJ: “Fallon! Yeah!”
AS: “Who is in charge …talking about the earlier brilliant things she’s done. She’s clearly come out of both an industrial, but also military, [career]... weaponizing things.
“My favorite thing in that movie is him [Bellamy] with the blueberries.”
GJ: “I was going to ask you about that scene!”
AS: “By the way, the other thing there to amuse myself — because of the whole thing being about birds — I THINK every character in there is named after a bird.”
GJ: “I think so! Let me think — Fallon. Vogel.”
AS: “Vogel’s German for “bird.”
GJ: “Yeah, I think you’re right.”
AS: “Thrush!”
GJ: “I think Doc’s the only one that’s not.”
AS: “Yeah, Doc is just referred to as “Doc,” but I think almost everybody in there is a bird.”
GJ: “That one guy from the Body Chemistry 2 review wasn’t kidding when they said you have a lot of in-jokes in these things.”
AS: “We always do! And the ultimate in-joke is that… the first time we meet Doc, he’s watching Brain Dead.”
GJ: “Exactly! [laughs]”
AS: “[laughs]”
GJ: “We’ll get to that, too. I got a whole thing in here for that one. But yeah — [brain processes new Carnosaur knowledge] — It’s a lot of information. I’m just going to go to the next question right now, so we can get back [on track]. I’ll get back to that.
“Let’s see. Oh! A quick little bit to the last question. My friend — Paleomedia YouTuber Dino Diego, who was in the [History of Carnosaur] book — wanted to know if you were able to read Brosnan’s original script to the film, or was that just lost forever?”
AS: “No, I never read that. I think — Now that I’m remembering… Roger was like, “Don’t read the script, but you can read the novel if you want. You don’t have to, but you could.” That’s why I said, “No, I’ll read the novel.” So no, I never read John’s script. It might well have been good. There would have been multiple reasons [not to read it]. It’s tricky. By that time, I was already walking a tightrope, where I was already in the Writer’s Guild.
“When I did Brain Dead, I was able to just go ahead and write it, and have it under my name… Body Chemistry 2 — as we discussed last time — I used the home-name Christopher Wooden for whatever changes I did to the script… I think the previous writer had also been using that name.”
GJ: “It all fits! Nothing was wrong!”
AS: “It all fits! But with this one, I really was into the script. I had a great time with it, and I wanted to… go ahead and say it’s by me, just see if the Guild even cared. Which they didn’t in the end, but they probably should have. Because of that, there’s a good reason not to then [read his script]... It was going to say that it was based on John’s novel. I didn’t want to end up having to use any of his script, or [have it] even be able to be said, “Oh, did you use any of that script?” And then have to share credit, or any of that kind of stuff.
“I never did read it, and I don’t even remember — the one time I met Brosnan in a pub in London — if he even brought that up… Whatever it was, Roger had gotten the script — I think — when he had bought the novel, but I don’t think he ever had any intention of using that… It was probably just part of his original deal with John to get the rights, and then let [Brosnan] do a draft.”
GJ: “Yeah, I think that was the idea. If I remember correctly from what I’ve read, he [Brosnan] met with Corman — or a representative of Corman — [then] they just wrote a contract on a napkin, or something like that. [laughs]”
AS: “That sounds right. [laugh]”
GJ: “He’s like, “Go ahead! Write a script! Don’t worry about the budget! Write the script! We’ll check it out!” And then they just cut off all contact [with Brosnan].”
AS: “Because it was never really his intention. No doubt.
“But he also knew that I was probably — Because he was getting Diane Ladd, and he wanted it to be this bigger thing, and because I was then becoming a successful writer — I mean, Roger’s far from a dummy. He's a brilliant guy, and I think he knew that it needed to be a good script, a challenging and interesting script. Which it actually is, I mean, in all kinds of ways.”
GJ: “I think so!”
AS: “It was a really fun script, and I think we only did a little bit of justice to it, given that the budget shrank from — you know — $5 or $6 million to $500 or $600 thousand, or whatever he spent.”
GJ: “When you write something with a budget in mind, and then get told it’s not the right budget, you got to axe some things.”
AS: “Oh yeah.”
GJ: “That’s really interesting. I’m pretty sure the [Brosnan] script might have got turned in to Corman, and the Corman just left it somewhere. It’s probably sitting in a closet somewhere.”
AS: “Probably. [Someone] probably should try to dig it out. I don’t know. Literally until you mentioned it, I’d forgotten that he actually had a script from Brosnan. When you said that, I’m like, Oh yeah! Right! That’s what he told me not to read! [laughs]”
GJ: “[As Corman] “Read the book. Don’t worry about the script. We’re not going to use it.” [laughs]”
AS: “[As Corman] “And use what you want in the book, or not.” You know, mostly what he wanted was the title, and the cover that, “No, he wasn’t ripping off Jurassic Park. He was adapting CARNOSAUR.”
GJ: “Exactly. I think that was the right move, because it allowed you to pretty much do an original take of the idea. [As Corman] “Here’s the base idea. You’ve made good stuff. You do something with it.”
AS: “Yeah.”
GJ: “So, next question.
“When you were officially in production on Carnosaur, I’m sure you had other ideas on how to bring the dinosaurs to life, and I’m curious as to what they were. I mean, stop-motion — I know Corman never really cared for that. I’m sure CGI [Computer Generated Imagery] was never an option.
“Were there any other techniques considered before landing on John Carl Buechler’s effects?”
AS: “Yes, I had a ton of ideas. I know Buechler’s got lots of fans out there, and people who love his stuff — I was not necessarily a huge fan. He’s a good guy, and I loved all the people working around him, but I didn’t love [Buechler’s style]. I was really afraid that — in the end — it was going to turn into a rubber suit. Which at times [it did].
“Roger spent way more money that I would have chosen to spend — if I had full control of the budget — on the giant T. rex [Tyrannosaurus rex], which looked like one of those things you see sometimes, like, as a roadside attraction if you’re driving out in Palm Desert or something. Where there’s just a giant dinosaur standing in the middle of the desert because it looked pretty cool — especially from a distance — but it couldn’t really move for shit. It had these little hands that could move a little bit. It didn’t really do much, you know?”
GJ: “Great for close ups. It looks nothing like the puppet.”
AS: “I was really into forced perspective, and… was very influenced by a guy who actually supervised the effects from my side, not from John’s side. I had a guy named Alan Lasky, who had worked a lot with Jim Cameron. He led a mini-second unit for me to help do all the effects that weren’t being done by the Buechler people, and by adding stuff that I thought was better.
“Because he had worked on a number of films with Cameron… we spent much time looking at… LaserDiscs of Aliens, and of The Abyss, and of other Cameron films, to see how even then he was really minimizing and being very precise about when he did use digital effects. He was trying to use not just lots of physical and mechanical effects, but… a lot of old-school optical effects, particularly the idea of forced perspective. So we were hoping to do more stuff that way. There is, I think, some forced perspective work in there. I have to go back in my brain to try to remember where they were.
“I think the best stuff in there was… the puppeteering stuff — like the Velociraptor [Deinonychus] that we have in there — rather than the suit or the giant one. I wish they could have done more of that kind of thing, because that was much more effective in its type of movement.”
GJ: “Oh, I agree.”
AS: “The creature that you see attack the eco-hippies and rip off the girl’s leg — that was actually a pretty nifty puppet… I kept saying, “Can we just get an even smaller version of that? And even a small version of the T. rex? We’ll do forced perspectives to use it.” But they didn’t. They were pouring all their money into building the life-size T. rex.”
GJ: “That you use for, like, three scenes.”
AS: “Exactly.”
GJ: “So it was like, [sarcastically] “Thanks, Corman.”
AS: “But that was also… tactical on my part, initially. I knew how Roger worked at that point, and once he had cut our budget down so much, I did a little bit — You remember when we talked about Body Chemistry 2, the ways in which I kind of made the movie I wanted to make? I didn’t do many of the sex scenes and used up my budget, knowing that then he would say, “But I need more sex!” And then we would go find a way to do that. So similarly here, he cut the budget back so much, but I wanted all the human stuff, I wanted all these other scenes, I wanted the whole plague thing, I wanted all the rest of that.
“I somewhat purposefully undershot the dinosaurs at that time, knowing he would then go, “Okay, we need more dinosaurs.” Forcing him to put up… about another — I don’t know what — half a million dollars, or something, to pay for a lot more things. And then we got what I think are some of the best, most effective scenes in there, like when the kids in the car get attacked by the Deinonychus. Which was done by just me and that smaller unit that Alan Lasky was running. We did a bit more stuff with the big guy, and with the suits, and stuff like that.
“It’s a poker game when you’re dealing with Roger. Like, what can you get away with? What can you force him to do? How can you make him give you a little bit more of what you want? How can you get it close to what you’re trying to do?”
GJ: “And you played enough to be like, Alright, I know how to play this game of chess exactly.”
AS: “It was sort of like — What’s he going to do? Because there was no way I was going to end up making another film for him at that point. [There are] people like Jim Wynorski, who happily would spend their whole career under Roger, but I was already three-quarters of the way out, and was not envisioning [staying longer].”
GJ: [as Adam Simon] “This is my grand finale!”
AS: “I’m going to do this, I’m going to squeeze everything I can out of him, and if he’s pissed off, or says, “Okay, I’m not going to do it.” — Now, that wasn’t the result. He would have loved to have me do more.
“Wait! There’s one other funny thing I got to tell you.”
GJ: “Go ahead!”
AS: As we’re in prep for [Carnosaur]... the word spreads around quietly amongst people at the Corman office that — somehow — Roger has ended up with the rights to Fantastic Four.”
GJ: “Yep!”
AS: “And I go into Roger’s office and say, “Roger! If you were going to get one more film out of me, why the fuck didn’t you give me Fantastic Four!? I want to do Fantastic Four!” And Roger says, “No, you don’t.” [I say] “No, I do! I love the Fantastic Four! I don’t think superheroes have been done right. I get it’s going to be low budget, but I think maybe —”
“He’s like, “Trust me, Adam. You DO NOT want to do Fantastic Four.”
“And years later — It took me a while to understand that it’s because he knew at the time that that movie was never even going to be released.”
GJ: “Nope! He just did it to keep the rights.”
AS: “That’s right! That was all about that, and I felt bad for — I forget the guy’s name who actually ended up [directing it]. It was an interesting guy, not untalented. In fact, I think — If it’s the same director I’m thinking of, I actually later hired him to direct some episodes of Salem.
“But it was clear that that was a movie that Roger knew at the time — but he couldn’t admit to the creatives doing it — that it was literally never going to see the light of day. They were never even going to make final prints of stuff on it. So that’s what he was saying to me, “No, you DON’T want to do that. DO this one.”
GJ: “[as Corman] “Yeah, it’s just a big scheme right now.”
AS: “It’s just a big scheme! [laughs]”
GJ: “[as Corman] “Forget you ever heard about this one. You WANT to do Carnosaur!”
AS: “He wanted me to do Carnosaur, because he was also saying, “I’m going to do a theatrical release. I’m going to make a ton of prints. It’s going to get worldwide distribution. It’s going to be on the big screen.” All this stuff. He’s like, “You don’t want to do Fantastic Four.” [I said] “Okay.”
GJ: “[as Corman] “I like you too much for you to do Fantastic Four, alright?”
“It was Oley Sassone [who directed Fantastic Four], I think his name was.”
AS: “Oh! Oley! Yeah, Oley’s not who I was thinking of. I was thinking of another guy who worked there.”
GJ: “Alright, next question!
“As with your previous two films, you had quite the cast to work with — Raphael Sbarge, Jennifer Runyon, Harrison Page, Clint Howard, Ed Williams, and — of course — Diane Ladd.
“How was it working with this cast compared to your other features? Was it relatively smooth? Any difficulties?”
AS: “It was almost entirely, perfectly smooth. I mean, we have great people in there. Plus, a lot of what I would think of as the “Adam Simon Company,” because all the smaller parts are filled with people who you would have seen in Brain Dead and Body Chemistry 2, and many, many, many people from the theatre company I was associated with — The Actors’ Gang.
“The only thing that was difficult in some ways was Diane Ladd. She’s a big star. She had her Oscar and everything, and she’s a very quirky, eccentric person… She gives a great, great performance in there, but that was difficult. She was difficult. It had been thirty years — forty-whatever years — since she had done a Corman movie, and she was used to doing a lot of big movies.
“In order to have her do it, Roger was doing things like — She got to have her own trailer. Which is normal for a movie, but NOT normal for a Corman movie, where everybody just has to use and share these shitty dressing rooms, but she actually had a trailer. We lost, like, a whole day just getting her trailer in there.
“And then the fact that she had brought — I believe — her rabbi, her feng shui expert, and some other kind of spiritual figure, who had to place the trailer in the right feng shui arrangement. Then the Rabbi and the Shaman had to come bless it. There was all this stuff. [laughs]”
GJ: “[laughs] Or else everything wouldn’t work. She wouldn’t be able to act otherwise.”
AS: “Exactly! And though she really enjoyed the script, and really liked the monologue stuff I had for her, she also — The best and worst thing about her was she just liked to go off-script. Which was great, because she would then go off and sometimes do really great things, but it was just, you know — When you’re shooting a Corman movie — especially on this shrunken budget — you can’t afford to do more than literally a couple of takes, but she was needing lots and lots of takes. It was problematic. Otherwise, no, everybody was great in it. In the end, she gives a great performance.
“And when, finally, she got too difficult to deal with, and we [were] finished [with] her, I wrapped her early and — We can talk about it now, or talk about it later. I did the infamous scene.”
GJ: “Go ahead and talk about it now while we’re here!”
AS: “Well, both because it’s something I thought would be really cool, but it was not in the original script — In the original script, she dies giving birth to one of her own dinosaurs, to show how committed to her plan she is. The scene just was having all kinds of problems, and I always found her difficult. So we did what we could, and then I said, “Okay, ladies and gentlemen, that’s a wrap on Miss Diane Ladd!” Everybody applauds, and she’s great. Everybody hugs, and she goes, and I’m like, “Okay, soon as she’s gone, we keep going!”
GJ: “[laughs]”
AS: “We already had a body [prop] made to do the actual birth coming out of [her stomach], but I said — and we did this on the fly to the effects guys, who are doing that part of the physical effects — “No, no, no! Instead, let’s have her do a Caesarean ON HERSELF!”
“They’re like, “Really? Like she’s going to grab a knife?” I’m like, “No, no, no! With her fingernails!” [wiggles fingers] Which actually is one of the more memorable things in there. [laughs]”
GJ: “I remember! [laughs]”
AS: “I don’t think she [Ladd] was happy when she finally saw the movie, and saw that — without knowing it — I had made it look like she gave herself a Caesarean with her fingernails. I thought it was pretty great, and was able to cut it in such a way that she’s looking down at her fingers, even though that’s not her hands — obviously — actually doing it.”
“But she did great work… Raphael was super fun and great, Harrison Page was great, Clint Howard — I knew I wanted him back. We love him, he’s an automatic [choice]. Just watching him eat his chicken leg while walking — That was his idea, too! He’s like, “How about if I’m eating a chicken leg while I’m walking?” And trust me, if you are at a chicken processing plant, there is NO way you want to be eating a chicken leg.”
GJ: “That’s character right there!
AS: “It was! It was great! He was right. It was so fun, and so funny.
“So they’re all there, plus — like I said — a lot of the regulars in my field company. Ned Bellamy is that guy [in charge of DARPA]. I think the other corporate head he’s talking to is actually my uncle, Myron [Simon] — who is no longer with us, a blessed memory — who was an English professor. Brilliant.”
GJ: “Was he the one that told you about Body Chemistry 2… “Your films need to be watched a couple of times, and no one wants to watch them once.”
AS: “Yeah, it’s the same guy! Exactly!
“And so my vengeance was, “Okay, good. So you’re going to stay up all night and be in [Carnosaur]!”
“There’s some other folks that — I think maybe my dad and stepmom are in that scene, too. The board scene, where they’re all in there talking about what’s in there. So yeah, that was really fun.
“And no, the human aspect was smooth. The harder things were dealing with the effects, dealing with Buechler’s giant creature, especially the final stuff with the Bobcat. Which was fun, you know? It was — I thought — a good idea on my part. It was definitely a nod to Cameron and the end of Aliens… and I said that to Buechler. I said, “Okay, could your thing grapple with an actual [Bobcat]?” But also, we got the miniature Bobcat and the miniature [T. rex], and some of that actually works pretty decently.”
GJ: “I mean, for a movie that had such a small budget, the effects are actually — [and] for effects that were done in a relatively short time-frame — really well done, I think.”
AS: “They’re pretty fun. I mean, some of them, I don’t even know what it means. Like, the laser thing is cool, but I don’t even know what that is, or what that means. [laughs]”
GJ: “[laughs] Oh my god! I have a question in here [about that], actually. Later on… it’s one of the quick questions I want to ask you.
“I was going to ask [about] the scene where Diane Ladd… just rips her stomach open, and the dinosaur comes out. I noticed that that’s a little bit of Roger Corman rubbing off on you because — 1. You didn’t tell her about the scene — and — 2. That’s very much an Alien scene. Like, you know, the chestburster.
“I was wondering if that was a reference to Alien, Humanoids from the Deep, or The Terror Within?”
AS: “[laughs] Probably all of the above! I liked The Terror Within. I forget that director’s name, but he was one of the people I most liked at Corman’s, and was a friend. I thought it was really good.
“Yeah, it was all that. It was to bring in the body horror and the Cronenberg side of it, for sure. And definitely the Alien side of it, no doubt… We had to find a way to pay off this idea about the eggs, the pregnancies, and what that was.”
GJ: "Especially since you already did it before with the diner waitress giving birth to an egg. It’s like, “Well, we can’t just do that again. Let’s do something different. Rip her stomach open!”
AS: “That’s right! You got to do much bigger. We wanted to actually have the creature come out and have that little moment with his mummy, you know? [laughs]
“The funny thing is — I didn’t know it at the time. I don’t think I knew until we were finished shooting that — what’s her name? You just mentioned her. She plays Thrush.”
GJ: “Oh! Jennifer Runyon!”
AS: Jennifer! Jennifer was actually pregnant while we were making the film, but she didn’t tell us, and we didn’t know.”
GJ: “I remember this from that podcast!”
AS: “She finally told us late in [filming] that she was. That’s why she had to take more frequent breaks and stuff. She was tired.
“But afterwards, I’m thinking, “Gosh, I hope that works out okay.” Because, you know, the movie is so much about — There’s a lot of pregnancy horror in it, and yet she’s actually walking around quietly in her first trimester, or whatever.”
GJ: “She’ll be able to tell her kid, “Hey, I was pregnant with you while this scene with horrible, pregnancy, medical-horror was [filmed]! You were there! You’re in the movie, too!”
AS: “[as Runyon] “You’re in the movie, too!”
“It’s also, though, that there were going to be these big-scale effects. We didn’t know how they were going to be, and I wanted to match this up with a lot of micro-effects — things that were much more controllable that you know could look cool and gory. Like the Caesarian, or like one of my favorite things in there, when — I think it’s Harrison [Page] or his wife [Michele Harrell] — a character who’s trying to just make eggs in the morning, but the eggs keep coming out all disgusting.”
GJ: “Yeah, because she’s making breakfast, and he comes in… like, “You’re sick! Get out of here! I’ll do it!” Then each egg is progressively more disgusting than the last.”
AS: “That’s a very effective little scene, and the effects in it are really good because it’s all physical and real. The guys actually put things in those eggs [and] sealed them up, so they totally looked real. He cracks it open and, “Oh!” [acts disgusted]”
GJ: “He was like, “Oh, it’s green!”
AS: “That’s small and micro, and yet you can make it seem real in a way that’s going to be a lot harder to, you know, make the T. rex seem real.”
GJ: “For sure, as obviously a reference to Green Eggs and Ham, right? [laughs]”
AS: “Exactly! [laughs]”
GJ: “But yeah, that scene’s great. A lot of great scenes. I could go on about every scene. In fact, we’ll get to that later on! Trust me, there’s a lot of questions!
“One thing that makes this movie different… even [from] the other movies in the series, is that it’s taken completely seriously. All the characters act like the worst thing ever is happening. No tongue-in-cheekness, to a degree. Maybe a couple of the effects, but the acting itself is just completely serious. Like, “Oh my god! Women are giving birth to dinosaurs!” I think that’s really effective, and everyone did a great job doing that.”
AS: “That’s a really fundamental choice on my part, and it stays true in — I think — everything that I’ve done, more or less. Very true of something, in a way, that applied a lot in Salem… I don’t mind if there’s things layered in there that are kind of winks and nods, but the actors can’t do that.
“They have to be fully committed to the “reality.” Now a lot of times, they don’t want to do that, because the material might seem dumb or stupid, or people might laugh at it. And people don’t want to be laughed at, right? So the actors want to show you that they’re in on the joke. But that’s for them, that’s not for the audience.
GJ: “That’s not for the story.”
AS: “Sure, the audience is going to laugh, the audience is going to find some of it ridiculous, but you want to give them even that pleasure, and you have to do that by doing it with a straight face. You know? And really making that real, and not being afraid of that fact that yeah, in the end, that’s going to be funny.
“Your intent on winking at them is also to get a chuckle, but really you’re trying to protect yourself as the performer and go, “I want them to know that I KNOW what this is like. No, then you’re no longer in it. You’re no longer REAL.”
GJ: “You’re not giving 110%.”
AS: “I want them to be totally and fully 100% committed, and that’s fun. Then it’s still funny. [The audience] is smart, they know what’s funny and what’s not. I mean, the stuff that Ned’s doing with the blueberry pie — I think — is hilarious, but he’s not winking at you. He’s just fully committed.”
GJ: “I was like, I fully believe that character is doing this on purpose. It’s not a goofy, little character moment. This character thought the best way to talk to the senator was to get on the table and stare at him, face-to-face, while he eats the goat juice pie. [laughs]”
AS: “Exactly! [laughs]”
GJ: “I’m going to go ahead and ask that question.
“Whose idea was that? Was that his idea to get on the table? Was that your idea?”
AS: “His blocking? No, that was him. I mean, I wrote the scene, and wanted to show off all this crazy, weird, science stuff again, which is kind of true. If people knew what goes into their food, the non-food things that are in there — So we were having fun with that.
“Ned is a brilliant actor. You’ve probably seen him in a million TV shows and many, many [movies], but he’s also one of the lead founding members in the Actors’ Gang. He is just a brilliant physical actor. When we were first blocking it, that was just his impulse, and I’m like, “Okay, go with it. Let’s see!” It’s too much fun, and they get to move the camera around for him and have that set shown.”
GJ: “And it also serves as commentary about our government, which I fully believe do shit like this. [laughs]”
AS: “No doubt, no doubt. [laughs]”
GJ: “He’s being almost sensual with the senator.”
AS: “Oh, he definitely was!”
GJ: “[as Bellamy] “It’s so good! Each blueberry is fresh, and can last forever in a pantry, just because we put the goat juice on it!” And the [Senator’s] like, “Goat juice!?” [laughs]”
AS: “Like, goat embryonic fluid. [laughs]”
GJ: “It’s just a perfect scene, in my opinion. It’s… already uncomfortable because you’re like, Okay, what’s going on here? And it just keeps going. You think… Oh, he’s trying to convince this guy. Then the payoff is the most asinine thing you can think of. [laughs]”
AS: “[laughs] Yeah, and I love Ned. I just saw him, actually, went to see a play that he was also at. Just a great actor, and so much fun, and that kind of physicality — It’s great.”
GJ: “He’s definitely one of the most memorable characters in the movie. When he comes up on the screen, I can’t help but smile, because he’s always so energetic and into it.
“So the next question is about the score.
“The score is unlike anything I’ve heard anywhere else. It’s dramatic — a theme not out of place in a mad scientist’s lab. At the same time, there’s a sadness to it, a hopelessness. It crescendos to an evil and almost triumphant roar, and then it drones into long, melancholic notes, nearly foreshadowing the film’s story. Everything builds up to an epic showdown, then abruptly descends to a sad, hopeless end — leaving us doomed.
“How did you and Nigel Holton create this memorable, unique score? What was the inspiration? And why aren’t there any physical copies anywhere?”
AS: “I wish there was! Same with Body Chemistry 2!
“We talked about Nigel a little bit because he came in and did the — to me — achingly beautiful score for Body Chemistry 2, and wrote the incidental songs in it that are also pretty fun. So I definitely wanted to work with him again. He’s really a talented guy. He just died really young, not that many years after that, I believe… He should have had a big career. I think he had it in him to be absolutely [like] Hans Zimmer, or somebody like that.
GJ: “For sure!”
AS: “He was just a really, really, really gifted composer. We talked about a lot of things. We talked about [Stanley] Kubrick’s use of classical music. We talked a lot about [Richard] Wagner and these “Wagnerian” themes, but also a lot of what we now call the “holy minimalism” — [Henryk] Górecki, Arvo Pärt, and that kind of thing. He also really captured the fact that [Carnosaur] had all these different moods. It’s got these big action things, it’s got light and funny things, but in the end — We talked about this a bit in relation to Body Chemistry 2, and even to some extent with Brain Dead. Part of the fun of getting to do a Corman movie is that you don’t have to do the conventional happy ending, and I did not want to. I wanted it to be this other much, much bleaker ending, and wanted that to have some emotion, because we’ve been with these people in this whole town the whole time. And he completely delivered on that.
“He just was a really lyrically-gifted composer, and we didn’t — I mean, what I would have loved is if he had gone on and lived longer, and broke into the world that I think he would have broken into, to have heard what he could have done with real orchestras and stuff. Because all that [in Carnosaur]? He’s generating all that sound himself, because in a Corman movie… he [Corman] would not spend money on having any live string players or anything like that. [He was] limited to what he could do with his synthesizers and everything, but they sound really good.
“And yes, it combines these symphonic, Wagnerian moments with this very minimalistic kind of thing, and then with some more sci-fi strings and sounds… I’m glad you appreciate that, and I wish there was a way to somehow — I’d love — I wish I even just had — somehow — a clean version of both that and the Body Chemistry 2 score that he did, because they’re beautiful.”
GJ: “One of these boutique [physical media] companies got to get on it somehow. They got to contact the estate.”
AS: “One of these guys.”
GJ: “Dust off the vinyl record, or the [audio] tape from the salt mines, or whatever, and give it to them.”
AS: “I think that’s overdue to get some kind of a restoration, or Blu Ray… or a 4K, or something.”
GJ: “It really is. I actually found out — allegedly — who owns the rights to [Carnosaur]. Some guy named Robert, I believe. Joey [Palinkas] found him and let me know. I sent an email to him, but he hasn’t answered back yet. I should probably follow up on that.”
AS: “I can’t — I’m surprised one of these boutique companies hasn’t — Because they already did with Brain Dead. I’d like to see a Body Chemistry 2 reissue, too, but particularly Carnosaur would seem like it’s pretty ripe for that, and it would be a great extra to have the isolated score.”
GJ: “For sure! Especially for a special edition, you’d get the CD of the soundtrack — which I’d buy immediately. But yeah, some guy named Robert. Don’t know who he is, don’t know what he does, [and I] sent him an email. I guess he just loved Carnosaur and bought the rights. Which — I get it, I guess.”
AS: “Really? I had no idea, but there were always so many companies within companies, and shell companies, and Roger was a bit of a financial genius. So who knows… That might have been a separate company he set up. I don’t know who ended up owning that. I’m surprised that anybody but him does, because he fully financed that himself. So somebody else — It would have been because he sold it to them.”
GJ: “I think it was sold after he died, actually.”
AS: “Oh wow!”
GJ: “His family’s estate sold it to somebody, if I remember correctly.”
AS: “I believe it.”
GJ: “Yep, so somebody has them. I don’t know what he’s going to do with them. Hopefully he’ll reach out to me, or you, or somebody.”
AS: “You would think if he wants to make some money off it, you got to get a new version out there.”
GJ: “Exactly. I DO know Shout Factory owns the rights to Body Chemistry 2.”
AS: “Oh!”
GJ: “They said they’re not planning anything yet, but I let them know, “Hey, if you need some extras, me and Adam Simon are ready to go!” So I’ll let you know if anything comes from that, but I believe they have [those rights].”
AS: “Ready to go! Absolutely. They should… double it up with the first Body Chemistry, just because there is such renewed interest in the 90s erotic thriller.”
GJ: “I mean, with all those movies coming out… that are based on old ideas and genres that aren’t really done anymore, like Sinners.”
AS: “I can’t wait to see that! I’m so glad [it’s doing well].”
GJ: “It’s so good! You’re going to love it.”
AS: “I heard. I’m really excited.”
GJ: “I’m not going to talk too much about it, then. It’s really good, definitely check it out. It definitely feels like an older movie.”
AS: “Love that, love that.”
GJ: “But yeah, again, [Carnosaur’s] score is fantastic. Love it. It lives in my mind rent-free. I have not heard anything like it since. Nigel Holton really had an ear for making very unique music.”
AS: “He really did. The fact that he could make scary music and really beautiful [music] — Like I said, I really thought he had a Morricone kind [of sound].”
GJ: “For sure!”
AS: “He really could have done anything.”
GJ: “I could see the Carnosaur theme next to The Thing’s [theme], or something like that.”
AS: “Yeah, you could!”
GJ: “Very much several different emotions happening, as I said. Bombastic, sad, silly. All that kind of stuff. Great.”
PART TWO coming soon!
