‘Carnosaur’ (Adam Simon #3.2)
Conducted by Giallo Julian — 05/02/2025
(modified for readability)
We’re back, Blood Babes! TEETH and CLAWS bared! This is PART TWO of my THREE HOUR discussion of Carnosaur with director Adam Simon! If you haven’t caught up yet, you can read the first part RIGHT HERE. With all that out of the way, let’s continue this DIRECTION DISSECTION!
“A genetically manipulated and very hungry dinosaur escapes from a bioengineering company and wreaks havoc on the local desert town. A security guard and a girl environmentalist try to stop both it and the company's doomsday bioweapon.”
interview:
Giallo Julian: “It would be disingenuous of me NOT to talk about the stars of the show — the DINOSAURS! Now, I separated this question into five parts, so it’s not TOO overwhelming.
“For Carnosaur, the dinosaurs chosen were the Deinonychus and the Tyrannosaurus rex, respectively. Was their inclusion always in the cards? Were there other dinosaurs to be featured? And was the fact that none of these dinosaurs belong to the Carnosauria family ever a factor?”
Adam Simon: “[laughs] Well, to answer the last of those — No, I’m sure it was not a factor. I think that mostly came from John [Carl Buechler], probably, and from Roger [Corman]’s early discussions with him, because I do believe he was already attached when Roger came to me… I think John probably wanted to direct it, and Roger was like, “No. I’ve got this guy I want to have direct it.”
“It’s an interesting question. I don’t really know, and I don’t even remember now — In the script — It’s been so long, I haven’t looked at the script in a couple of decades. I don’t even remember how specific I was about what they were, or whether or not they were going to be some new variant created by whatever she was doing with the birds. But I do believe the proposal to do those specific ones came from Buechler, probably.
“And I’m sure nobody even bothered to think about whether they were actually carnosaurs. [laughs]”
GJ: “I mean, to be fair — at the time that [John] Bronson’s book was written — they were considered carnosaurs. It wasn’t until a couple of years after [its release] that they weren’t [anymore], so it’s completely forgivable.”
AS: “And I just don’t remember if those were the same versions that were in the book or not.”
GJ: “The T. rex shows up as a baby [in the book]. [The big dinosaur] was originally a Tarbosaurus, which is just a T. rex, but smaller, and the Deinonychus did show up in the book, so we have two of them. I remember hearing that there was a Pterodactyl puppet made for [the movie], I think.”
AS: “That perks my memory, and I do believe that there was, but I don’t remember what — Yeah, you saying that, I really remember that now.
“And I think — Is there not? Do we not use, like, a baby one? Do we not see one hatch? A little mini [Pterodactyl]? I think the idea was that that’s what we were going to see come out of one of the eggs, but I don’t think that ever got made. Seems to me that there was a scene in the script where we did have that, because — certainly — it would make sense… That’s the one dinosaur that everybody associates with birds.”
GJ: “Oh yeah. Even though it’s technically not a dinosaur, but — you know — no one cares.”
AS: “Exactly! No one cares. Certainly we didn’t.”
GJ: “Yeah! [laughs]”
AS: “No, I think [Buechler] might have done [a Pterodactyl puppet]. Did it ever show up in the sequels? Or in Dinosaur Island?”
GJ: “It didn’t even show up in any of the sequels, but Dino Diego [found] something. There’s a Pterodactyl puppet in Dinosaur Island at one point, and we speculate that it was the puppet that was supposed to be in Carnosaur.”
AS: “Yeah, that would make sense… I have to honestly say I don’t remember, but it does strike me that it was in the script. In particular, I think there was a little baby one that hatched from an egg.”
GJ: “I guess it just got left on the cutting room floor, or something, like many things.
AS: “I don’t think we even shot it.”
GJ: “Oh, okay.”
AS: “There was so much I had to remove… Literally less that two weeks before we started to shoot was the first I heard that we were not going to have $5 million, and instead we were going to have well under $1 million... Then I just had to start pulling things out of the script.
“I mean, it was either that or just walk away, because there was going to be no way to do it. I’m pretty sure that that was stuff that actually never even got shot.”
GJ: “It’s like, “Roger’s not going to put up money for more film. He said we can’t go into the giant T. rex budget. We have to drop the scene.”
AS: “There was a lot of that. No doubt, no doubt.”
GJ: “Another thing that I found peculiar, actually, is that the dinosaurs… are not vocalized by the usual stock roars normally used in these types of movies. Usually, it’s like the same three roars used over, and over, and over. The sequels use those same roars. This one didn’t — these ones are very much higher-pitched and more avian in nature, with one instance even mimicking a hawk. This even extends to the T. rex, who gives more sorrowful howls than primordial roars.
“What was the reasoning behind this? Whose idea was it to go this route to have the dinosaurs sound more bird-like?”
AS: “Yeah, that was definitely the idea… We really were leaning into this idea about the dinosaur-bird connection, and wanted to get away from the cliches of these dinosaurs letting out what sounded like giant lion roars, or something.”
GJ: “Because that’s exactly what they were.”
AS: “Right! No doubt that’s what they would have been. It’s like, “Oh wait! Is that the MGM [Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer] lion? No, it’s a T. rex!”
“It’s like, no — If the whole point is that these are somehow what evolved into birds, then their whole vocalization — their whole EVERYTHING — should be more like that. So I think that was to be consistent with the whole concept in there of the relation between dinosaurs and the birds. You know?”
“And hey — one of my other most favorite movies is, of course, [Alfred] Hitchcock’s The Birds… That’s a movie that doesn’t even have a musical score. It just has all these creepy bird sounds and stuff.”
GJ: “And it’s terrifying!”
AS: “And it’s terrifying! So we were definitely going for that. It was definitely intentional. I didn’t realize that in the sequels, they would have reverted to just roars.”
GJ: "[sarcastically] What!? You didn’t watch the sequels?”
AS: “I have not. I can honestly say I have not seen any of the sequels, nor Dinosaur Island.”
GJ: “Oh man. Don’t worry [about them].”
AS: “I haven’t even been able to bring myself — I should watch the movie.
“I haven’t even watched [Carnosaur]. It was so traumatic in ways for me, just because of how it was received, and the budget, and all that stuff. For better or for worse, I just hid from it for years. It really wasn’t until your generation it became clear that it was a cult favorite amongst young people I knew, and even actors I was working with — who were more in your generation — who were saying, “Oh my god, Carnosaur! I love Carnosaur!” [I’m like] “Really? You do? What’s wrong with you?” [laughs]”
GJ: “[laughs] Hey, it was at Blockbuster and I rented it!”
AS: “You know, I do remember seeing it at a big Italian film festival where people really seemed to like it when it first came out. I had friends who saw it on Times Square and Hollywood Boulevard, or took pictures of it playing in Thailand, and all these places, because it really did play all over the world. And I’m like, “God bless you for going.” Unlike the other ones, I couldn’t get myself to go see it, so it may well be that I haven’t seen it practically since it was made. I should watch it again. [laughs]”
GJ: “Oh, for sure! I think you should!
“I’ll talk to Dread Central. Maybe we can do some sort of exclusive commentary or something, if you want to sometime… Or when they do the Blu-Ray. The eventual Blu-Ray!”
AS: “Exactly. Then we’ll do a rewatch!”
GJ: “I definitely can see Europe being a bigger fan of the movie than America at the time, because it does have a lot more avant-garde stuff that they would appreciate more than the American audiences, which were — I don’t want to say “simpler,” but more “mainstream,” more streamlined with their stuff.”
AS: “I think audiences here actually really liked it, and it did insanely well, and did insanely well on video.”
GJ: “That’s true!”
AS: “It was more critics who liked to kick it around. But it’s… so easy to kick. It’s just like kicking a three-legged dog. I mean, Yeah, okay, sure.”
GJ: “Yeah! It’s like The Thing! They saw E.T. and kicked The Thing around. They saw Jurassic Park and kicked Carnosaur around. Big bullies is what they are, those critics!”
AS: “[laughs]”
GJ: “I say, as a critic. [laughs]”
AS: “[laughs] Well, I miss them, now that there’s not so many left.”
GJ: “Man, it's kind of a dying art at this point. It just keeps getting smaller and smaller, or the ones that do exist have a different paradigm than the ones I’m used to. That’s a whole conversation for another day.”
AS: “Yeah!”
GJ: “Alright, so the next part of this question — my favorite scene — the BIG Deinonychus scene. Where the Deinonychus kills all the hippies at the construction site. Everyone’s chained up, it goes in, and just starts biting the shit out of them.”
AS: “Greetings, green brother!”
GJ: “Greetings, green brother!” And then just Rah! [pantomimes Deinonychus attacking]
“I love this scene. I want to know ALL about it.
“How did you go about shooting it? How long did it take? And one thing I noticed — the Deinonychus eats the woman’s leg like a piece of chicken. Was that intentional?”
AS: “Oh yes.”
GJ: “Because it seemed like Clint Howard’s whole thing!”
AS: “Yeah, 100%! So that was a lot of fun. It was one of the most fun parts of the shoot. There’s no official actors in that scene at all. The guy who plays the — [holds up peace sign]”
GJ: “The “green brother” guy.”
AS: “Brother Whatever-his-name-is… was literally my neighbor up in Malibu. Really eccentric, interesting, talented, wonderful man. Vietnam vet, very eccentric, and — literally — he had grown up in the house next to the house I was living in at the time up in Big Rock. Those houses are gone now, after this recent fire. It’s been there a long time.”
GJ: “Yeah.”
AS: “His name was Jul Niemier. He played that character, and then we had a bunch of extras, and then the featured extra, that girl, and I’m — I’m sorry that I can’t remember her name [Pamela March]. She was one of the assistant editors. She was literally a crew member, but she was funny, and she was cute, and she wanted to be in it, and went for it. So we did that. It was on the location where we actually had the trailer and all that stuff.
“Then, of course, that’s also one of the miniatures that we use. When it actually pulls off the leg and all that — that’s the miniature Deinonychus puppet holding a little — obviously — miniature fake leg. Then we did the very gory reverse [shot] on her stump after it’s taken to show that. And yes, it’s not just that the Deinonychus — [laughs] — eats it like a chicken leg — Because that was just so obvious. He’s like, “It’s a leg!” [takes bite]”
GJ: “[laughs] Yeah, exactly!”
AS: “And not only does that — He literally — and I said before, I don’t like the actors to wink at you, but that doesn’t mean the movie can’t — It’s actually a moment that literally breaks the fourth wall, because the Deinonychus seems to look pretty much right into the camera and go, “Yum!” [takes another bite]”
GJ: “Just taking a big bite, being like, “Tastes like chicken!”
AS: “Tastes like chicken! Exactly! So that was fully intentional, and really, really fun. That was one of my favorite things, even in the script. It was just a really fun idea, and we were contrasting all these different ideas about the environment. Because — on the one hand — there are these environmentalists. On the other hand, Tiptree herself — unbeknownst to them — is more of an environmentalist than they are, because her whole goal is — as we’ve talked about — to actually get rid of humanity, and turn the Earth back to its natural leaders.
“So the idea that these guys would have become victims of [her plan] was great.”
GJ: “Ironic!”
AS: “It was ironic, it was fun, and it was also just too irresistible. Like, there’s that classic thing that people chain themselves to trees, and to equipment, and stuff like that… I thought that was a hilarious idea when I was writing it, to have these environmentalists chained up there, and then when the dinosaur gets there, it’s just like a free smorgasbord, because no one can get away.”
GJ: “[as Deinonychus] “It’s my birthday! Holy shit!” [laughs]”
AS: “Exactly! [laughs]”
GJ: “It’s a brilliantly done monster scene because of all that stuff. There’s the irony of all these environmentalists getting eaten by an environmental plan — the true environmental plan — there’s the dinosaur eating [a limb like] a chicken leg, the “green brother guy” gets his face ripped off. It’s just a whole lot of fun.”
AS: “Yes, and it does make that an immortal line: “Greetings, green brother!”
GJ: “Oh, I say that so many times. That’s actually part of my lexicon now in my everyday life. So if there’s anything you can take from this, it’s that there’s one person out there who says that at least once a week.”
AS: “Yeah. Good, good.”
GJ: “Here’s another thing about the scene. Everywhere I look, I’m told — because there was a Deinonychus suit made for this movie — and I’m told that suit was never used, but I SWEAR — I paused the scene — I SWEAR that the suit’s being used to tug on the woman’s leg before it gets ripped off.”
AS: “I believe that you’re — I think you’re probably right. I mean, I fought to not use the suits. The minute you see the suit, you’re done. You could do better with other things. Even the hand puppet worked better, but I have to say I don’t 100% remember. It makes sense to me that that’s the kind of thing we would have used it for, because you need something to be tugging her leg. Though, for some of it, we’re just pulling her leg. Something like that, but you’d also want to see it in there.
“It might be because — Or we might have done — All of that tugging would have to be — Was it a wide shot?”
GJ: “No, it’s a quick [shot]. It’s a scene where you see her leg, it pans over to the Deinonychus — it’s a big head holding the leg and pulling it — then pans back to her. Like, split second. If you blinked, you wouldn’t have noticed.”
AS: “But it’s continuous. It’s not a cut.”
GJ: “It’s continuous.”
AS: “Then I think that has to be [the case], because the other pulling and tugging is done with the miniature. We couldn’t cover that in a single shot. Yeah, I think you might be right. Where did you read that we had never used it? I remember he had another suit, too, that I was just like, “No, please!” [shakes head and waves hands]”
GJ: “The T.rex suit that you guys had. Everywhere I read, it’s like, “Oh the suits were made, but never used.” Even the people that researched it — I’m pretty sure in the [History of Carnosaur] book, that was in there, I think. Or at least, Dino Diego said it was never used, and I’m like, “I swear it was used! I saw it! I’ve seen it!”
AS: “You might be right that it was used at that moment. I don’t remember, but I certainly am responsible for the fact that they weren’t used more [laughs]”
GJ: “Yeah! [laughs] But you know who did use them?”
AS: “[Jim] Wynorski?”
GJ: “Wynorski in Dinosaur Island! He used them, and you know what? I’m glad you didn’t use them in your movie, because they are ROUGH. [The T. rex suit]’s super stout, just going around with a big dinosaur head and this little body.”
AS: “Yeah, I just felt it was going to look like Son of Godzilla. Do you remember that?”
GJ: “Oh yeah.”
AS: “And I’m going to, like — I have some affection for that now, but at the time, I’m just like, “No, the minute you do that, you’re in Godzilla world.” You know? To Roger’s credit — Oh, also, one of Roger’s mantras, one of his mottos — and I think I actually have him saying that in that little Italian TV documentary I did on Corman, on the Directors On Directors [show]. He talks there — as he always used to talk to us who were working for him — about, “Don’t show the monster too much.” That the best thing is to not see it, you know? And to only see glimpses.
“And that was also the [Jim] Cameron way. I mean, look there in the Ridley Scott Alien, but also in the other one. You want to, as much as possible, just have little details. You do need to pay it off eventually, but the suits just felt like they would undermine our whole things.”
GJ: “And there’s also no appropriate scene to use them, anyway. Like, if you have the miniatures, you’re not going to be using the suits for forced perspective. You have a giant T. rex [animatronic], so you’re not going to use the suit for that. It seems like a waste of money to a degree.”
AS: “It was. I didn’t want to work with them. They didn’t seem to fit in with the scenes. And again… once our budget got reduced by, like, 90%, my whole intent was, Make the best film I can, use every penny I have, and underdo the dinosaurs.”
GJ: “So he has to put more money into it.”
AS: “Knowing that he would have to put some more money in to do them.”
GJ: “That makes sense to me.”
AS: “He would give us more time to do it, and that works. That’s what we had to do. It’s also why we could take the time and get the quality of human scenes, and sci-fi scenes, and virus scenes, and end of the world scenes… that we could do. Because we did those, even though I knew he would look at that stuff and go, “Where’s my dinosaurs!? I want to see my dinosaurs! Give me more dinosaurs!”
GJ: “[as Simon] “What are you talking about? We have two scenes of them. Is that not enough, Corman? I’m sorry.”
AS: “[to Corman] “We know they’re out there! They’re lurking somewhere!”
GJ: “He said not to show them too much!”
AS: “That’s right! [to Corman] “You told me don’t show the monster too much!”
GJ: “I find it funny where he’s like, “Hey, for these movies, don’t show the monster too much.” While at the same time, he spent a shit ton of money to make a sixteen foot Tyrannosaurus rex that he’s obviously going to want to see in the movie.”
AS: “Yeah, it was crazy. That was also because Buechler just wanted that. He loved dinosaurs, and I think his whole incentive was, “I’m going to get to make a full dinosaur!” And I think Roger had some ideas about using it for marketing, too.”
GJ: “I can see that.”
AS: “Like in front of the theaters and stuff, I don’t know what he ever did with it. I was busy hiding under the table somewhere.”
GJ: “I think he eventually blew it up. He blew up one of the models in Carnosaur 3, I think. They just blew its head off, and I’m like, “Well, I guess you’re not using that one anymore.”
“But yeah, that’s really cool. Thank you for helping me get to the bottom of that, because I was sitting there like, “I know it has to be that [Deinonychus suit]! There’s nothing else it can be!”
AS: “It could be! It could be. Makes sense.”
GJ: “So I want to talk about my second favorite scene now, which is the showdown between Sheriff Fowler — Harrison Page — and the Deinonychus. The climax before the actual climax! Honestly, I was like, This is tense! Really tense scene!”
“What’s the story behind it? Dino Diego mentioned in his video that in a previous script, a family was supposed to be killed by the Deinonychus. Was that supposed to be Fowler’s family?”
AS: “Yeah, that was how that originally was. That was, again, one of the things that just fell by the wayside when we were having to [cut scenes]. I literally had to drop, probably, 25%, 30% of the script. It was amazing that it still made any sense at all. Just to be able to do the whole thing in the seventeen days — or whatever we had — and [with] the money that we had.
“But Harrison himself — he and I spent a lot of time talking about westerns. His character’s wearing a cowboy hat, and that was a fun idea. It was also a bit of a nod — for the dinosaur geeks out there — it’s a Valley of Gwangi nod, which was itself a western with dinosaurs. Right?”
GJ: “Exactly!”
AS: “So the one place we were going to let that in was, like, the idea of high noon.”
GJ: “It’s a showdown between the dinosaur [and the sheriff]!”
AS: “But yes, originally his motivation there is, in fact, that [the Deinonychus] actually killed his family.”
GJ: “Okay! Which, I mean, it still makes sense in the movie, because the last time you see them, they’re sick. So it’s like, Oh, they probably died from the sickness. Now he has nothing to lose.
“It makes perfect sense that the Deinonychus originally killed his family, and he’s out there [for] the final showdown.”
AS: “He’s like, “Now it’s personal! Yeah!”
GJ: “[as Sheriff Fowler] “I got nothing to lose! Come get me, motherfucker!” And I’m like, That’s perfect!”
AS: “That’s right, and he’s really good. I can still picture him out on the little main street set that we had on Main Street in Venice, looking good and walking down there, and he’s great. He’s another good example of these actors who’s really good at just fully committing. I mean, he’s totally real.”
GJ: “He’s probably my favorite actor in the entire movie.”
AS: “He’s really good. Just really grounded.”
GJ:”That whole scene was just — From going to the pet shop where you see all the dead animals and stuff, to the Deinonychus seeing him, and the twist [he does] as he turns around and shoots it. It’s just SO good.”
AS: “Yeah. Good.”
GJ: “I was also wondering — Whose idea was it for him to get a talon up the ass? [laughs]”
AS: “[laughs]”
GJ: “What a way to fucking go!”
AS: “What a way to go! That I don’t know. That might have just been how we staged it. We wanted it, again, to be — There is definitely an element of body horror.”
GJ: “Oh yeah. And that’s HORRIFYING! [laughs]”
AS: “It’s horrifying, and it’s like with the leg thing. That was one of the things that I figured they’re not going to [do in Jurassic Park]. Because again, the Corman rule is, “You got to give people something for their money that they’re not going to get from the bigger, more expensive movie.”
“So some of that is the humor and the knowingness, some of it is the more downbeat ending, and some of it is the bigger ideas, perhaps, but some of that is also the gore. Because there was going to be a definite limit to the gore that [Steven] Spielberg would do, and we were like, “No, we want this to be a REALLY gory type of horror film, or dinosaur film.”
“Which seemed to me that dinosaur movies are usually so much about the sense of wonder of the dinosaurs, that even if you’re afraid of them, they’re not that gory. But we wanted this to feel more like the Alien movies, or like a [David] Cronenberg movie. Plus, you know, body horror effects are much cheaper and easier to do, and they’re just really literally visceral, and more immediate.
“So I don’t remember how the decision was made to literally give him a dinosaur proctology exam, but it would have been because of the general idea we were all queued into, and that I was constantly pushing that when there is horror, it should actually be BODY horror.”
GJ: “You’re sitting there like, “What’s something Jurassic Park wouldn’t do? I know! He’ll get a claw up the ass!”
AS: “It won’t do a claw up the ass! It’s not going to do a self-caesarian!”
GJ: “Yep!”
AS: “Not going to do the nasty eggs. It’s not going to rip a girl’s leg off, and then chew it like a drumstick.”
GJ: “I mean, you got to sit there and think — there’s so many cool kill scenes that you don’t get anywhere else. Like you said, the eating of the girl’s leg like a chicken leg.”
AS: “Clint’s head getting popped off.”
GJ: “Yeah! That’s another thing I was going to mention later. I’ll mention it now — The gore in this is very unique looking. It’s dark, it’s really stringy. You don’t see this kind of gore in other movies… I’m pretty sure it’s just a Buechler thing, because he carries that same style of gore throughout the sequels. But the first time it’s in this one, and it’s very unique.
“When you see this kind of gore, you think Carnosaur. You don’t think of anything else, because it’s not done anywhere else.”
AS: “I would say that’s probably equally John and me — my intent on it being body horror, and John — I would think — really got that. And if you think of the stuff he had done before, they’re like Ghoulies and stuff like that. There’s a lot of dripping. [pantomimes slime dripping]”
GJ: “Yeah. Gooey stuff.”
AS: “Stuff like that. And even the fact that — Remember the famous poster for Ghoulies is, like, one of the ghoulies sticking up out of a toilet. Right? I mean, that’s almost an emblem for body horror, of like, “Let’s get to the parts of our own bodies that are gross, and nasty, and funny, and sick, and whatever.”
“But yeah, from the get-go, part of the idea was to push that as far as we could, because we knew that was, again, not something that was going to be in Jurassic Park. It was never going to be a gorefest. This was a fun way to do that [in our movie], by giving it also the Cronenbergian body horror that actually made it scarier, too. You know?”
GJ: “Oh, for sure!”
AS: “Traumatize the kids.”
GJ: “[laughs] Or make them love the movie and become a Gorehound for the rest of their life. [points to self] Case and point.”
AS: “[laughs] Yeah!”
GJ: “But it is very much like — A lot of movies like Friday the 13th, and all these other slashers or movies where there’s gore — the kills are very clean. You see someone get their head chopped off, and it’s Whack! [karate chops own neck] Like, a perfect cut.
“This movie, all the kills are messy. It’s not just flesh being pulled off. You’re pulling off skin, and tendons, and it’s taking time to get this shit off their bodies, and it’s very visceral.”
AS: “Oh, it is, and that’s definitely the idea. You want it to look like it hurts. I mean, some of that was just also the evolution of what you could get away with. Think about the work that Tom Savini did. Again, it was then a few years later after this that I got to meet Tom, and he’s an important figure in American Nightmare. But I understood a lot better once I actually talked to Tom of the evolution of those kinds of effects. I really do believe that Tom Savini — besides being a genius — is really the guy most responsible within American cinema for transforming not just gore, but in general how realistically we depict violence to the body.
“Now we know that already at that time, the Italians were starting to do stuff. Dario Argento and the giallos were starting to do that, but even there, there’d be a lot of blood, there’s a lot of red, but it’s quite clean. And if you look at the early Savini stuff, like even — I mean, obviously it’s true in Halloween, which that’s not Tom, that’s [John] Carpenter, I don’t know who did the effects — but even in the early Savini stuff — like in Friday the 13th — as you say, it’s pretty clean. There’s a lot of bodies being pierced by things, or by knives, or heads coming off, but it’s quite clean. But he starts to make it more and more real, and by the time you get to something like Maniac, it’s super disturbing.”
GJ: “Yeah!”
AS: “The thing that Tom talks about in American Nightmare that I think is so important is, literally, how much of this comes from his experience in Vietnam.”
GJ: “I remember hearing about that. He was a photojournalist in Vietnam.”
AS: “If you haven’t seen American Nightmare — not to pat myself on the back — I think it’s actually the best thing I ever did, that documentary.”
GJ: “Oh really?”
AS: “I wish there was a new release of that. I think there’s a pretty decent version on YouTube with Italian subtitles… and there’s a number of discs you can find. It got its own disc originally, but those are hard to find now. [They’re] worth buying if you ever see the original ones, the standalone DVDs of it.”
GJ: “I’ll one up you on that: not only have I seen it, I used to watch it as a kid because my grandparents bought me the DVD back when it first came out.”
AS: “Oh, American Nightmare?”
GJ: “Yeah! I haven’t watched it in decades, but I’m definitely going to check it out again.”
AS: “That’s my favorite part of that film, the discussion with Tom… You can see he hasn’t really been talking about that much up to that point, and there’s a moment in the interview when he’s talking about what he’s doing in Vietnam, taking photos of the damage to bodies and stuff.
“And he’s saying, “That’s how I would psychologically protect myself while I was having to photograph this stuff on the ground. In my head, I’d be thinking, If I wanted to recreate that, how would I do it?”
“So he was thinking that through, and then when you see that in American Nightmare — I intercut some incredibly disturbing photos he did of these split apart Viet Cong bodies. Then I’m intercutting that with Maniac — in particular — and some of the later stuff that he did. You can really see how much he’s looked at this anatomical stuff. He’s going, “Fine. Fuck that. I’m going to do it like it really was.”
“And I think you can’t underestimate the effect of that. That for… most of Hollywood history, when someone gets killed, they clutch their chest and they fall over. That’s it. Starting with things like Bonnie and Clyde and [Sam] Peckinpah, we’re really taken to the next step by the work Savini did. Suddenly, death was going to look like death.
“Violence was going to look like violence. Not the ballet prettiness that even Peckinpah and Arthur Penn have, because of their slow motion. You know? It’s going to actually look like it hurts, and it’s horrible.”
GJ: “Exactly, because it IS horrible. Real death is very disturbing. You look at this stuff, and you’re like, Holy shit, that used to be a person.”
AS: “It was very conscious. It was a very conscious choice on my part — and certainly on John’s part, I’m sure, too — to say, “Let’s make this a gore movie also.” I hadn’t done that. I mean, some people look at Brain Dead as having bits of that because there’s brains and stuff in it, but it’s not really a gore movie at all. And Body Chemistry 2 isn’t. This was the one time I was really going to be like, “Let’s go for the Gorehounds! Let’s please our friends at Fangoria! Let’s actually make this thing gory!” Because if you got messed up by a dinosaur, it’s going to be messy.”
GJ: “Yeah, it’s NOT going to be clean… Their teeth aren’t that sharp — Like, they are sharp, but it’s not going to be sharp enough [cut cleanly]. A steel knife — it’s just going to cut right through you. [Teeth] are going to be nasty.
“And whether you know it or not, you set a precedent, because literally every other movie in the franchise has that same style [of gore] you did for this movie.”
AS: “It was definitely very, very much a choice, and I think, for better or worse, that’s part of it. It’s a gorefest.”
GJ: “I mean, I think it’s better. I’m just sitting there like, That is some good stuff!
“Alright, now we get to the other scene.
“We can’t leave the T. rex out! Jesse Paloma’s — Frank Novak — death is one of the most memorable and strangest scenes in the movie, mostly because of the “laser room.”
“What was the “laser room?” Whose idea was that? Whose idea was that scene in general?”
AS: “Well again, this came about — And by the way, I love Frank Novak. He’s so good in it.”
GJ: “Oh, he was great!”
AS: “He’s great walking through there. Really wonderful actor and a wonderful person.
“When the budget got cut, I had to drop a lot of scenes, and had to rejigger it to do it that way. I’m trying to remember whose idea it was. It might have been the cinematographers, or it could have been John’s… Because we basically had no money to do even the bigger sets. And we had never shown — Where was this? The question was always looming — Where are they keeping this thing?”
GJ: “[momentary pause] They’re keeping it behind the laser grid, obviously.”
AS: “Behind the laser grid! Exactly! The idea was meant to be that somehow that’s what kept it contained, because it would burn you if you [touched it]. It would be like a laser fence or something. It was also a way to do something that looked cool, but if you actually look here at the scenes, it’s like the sets are kind of bare. There’s almost nothing there.”
GJ: “Well, it’s mostly just the lights [and] the lasers.”
AS: “Lights, exactly. So a lot of that was just how to do something with nothing. It might even be that that’s one of the scenes we didn’t do until Roger said, “Not enough monster! Need more monster!” And we’re like, “Okay, let’s do this.” And found out how much it costs to just get a bunch of lasers, and basically created a set out of lasers.”
GJ: “So you’re like, “Okay, we got my garage. We’ll go to Party City and pick up some party lasers!”
AS: “No, they got some actual professional laser guys. We had to be careful, because those kind of lasers — You look that thing right in the eye, you’re never going to see again… Those were serious, high-grade [lasers].”
GJ: “Oh jeez.”
AS: “It was a whole deal, but it was still much cheaper than building any of the sets we’ve been talking about. And it just gave it another look, and a bit of a — Look, it’s sci-fi, and it’s made in whatever — I think we were shooting it in — What year did it come out? ‘91 or ‘92?
GJ: “‘93.”
AS: “‘93? Okay, so we’re shooting in ‘92.”
GJ: “It came out four weeks before Jurassic Park. Somewhere around then.”
AS: “That’s right… Some of the aesthetic of [Carnosaur], to me, was more like the 70s.”
GJ: “I could see that. Very much Westworld, those kinds of movies.”
AS: “Yes! Westworld, but also [George] Romero, and also Cronenberg. But also some of the other kind of sci-fi 70s thing, where like, “It’s lasers! It’s the future!” And that scene in particular — but also the scenes with Ned — were meant to do that.
“Again, it’s also because I really wanted to do it in the manner that I thought that Joe Dante and John Sayles would have done it, if this has been a New World picture instead of a New Horizons picture. You know? What would it have looked like in that way.”
GJ: “I get you! Going back to the roots a little bit. Be like, What if this was the 70s Roger Corman, and not 90s Roger Corman?”
AS: “Absolutely!... Like I said, the Dante/Sayles collab of Piranha was very much on the mind.”
GJ: “It very much reminds me of a… recent-ish [movie] — Beyond the Black Rainbow. It was by — what’s his name — the guy who did Mandy [Panos Cosmatos].”
AS: “Oh, I never seen that! I love Mandy. I got to see this. I’m going to jot that down.”
GJ: “Yep! Beyond the Black Rainbow. It’s the first film that he made, before Mandy.”
AS: “I got to jot that down. I got to see that. [I’ll] ask my son if he’s seen Beyond the Black Rainbow. What a crazy title.”
GJ: “It’s really good. It’s very much a hard, 70s-style sci-fi film.”
AS: “He’s totally into that. Even Mandy is like some 70s-style movie on bad acid.”
GJ: “Oh yeah, for sure!” It’s great. You mentioned before — back to Tom Savini — how [he] protected himself behind the camera when taking pictures of all the horrible things in Vietnam. That reminded me — this is totally off-tangent — of another movie called Savageland. Have you heard of that one?”
AS: “No.”
GJ: “Savageland is a movie where — It’s a small town. Everyone died in this small town. They only find this one guy there covered in blood, and they — So it’s a mockumentary… and it’s a found footage film. However, instead of “footage” as in a camcorder, it’s still-photography.”
AS: “Oh wow!”
GJ: “And they go through the whole film using these pictures that he took, and walk through the entire town. It’s really good.”
AS: “That sounds really cool… That makes sense. I mean, because if you look at what’s the lineage of a certain type of gore, it was there already in the 60s in the Herschell Gordon Lewis movies.”
GJ: “Blood Feast. Wizard of Gore.”
AS: “2000 Maniacs. Yeah, those. Which I loved seeing those when I was a teenager, when I was in college.”
GJ: “There was nothing like it back then. You’re sitting there like, “Oh my god! That woman got her tongue ripped out!”
AS: “That’s right! But at the same time, there are these very brightly colored, very artificial looking — It’s not exactly realism. But what you had at the same time, or shortly after that, were things like Cannibal Holocaust, and Cannibal Ferox, and those fake documentary cannibal movies that the Italians were doing. Then, of course, the Lucio Fulci zombie movies, and I think that becomes more the look of those things.
“Savini was doing the same thing, but again, directly out of his experience. That’s what’s so incredible about those — it comes directly from his own trauma. Because literally his job. He’s there in the field, in the bush, with his cameras. As a soldier, his job was to document the, as he put it, “damage” to enemy bodies and equipment. God knows WHY. That’s literally what he was doing. You see those photos he does of this body that’s split open, and then you go, Okay, this is [disturbing].
“And as he says in the movie, he loved horror movies. He was already trying to do the Frankenstein makeup, and these different kinds of makeups.”
GJ: “And then he saw all this [carnage], and he’s like, “Well, I got to process this somehow.”
AS: That’s right! Yeah. It’s really a funny other part of that movie, where he talks about how he had some of his equipment sent to him in the field. So just for fun… the drill sergeant wanted him to dress up his face monstrously so he could scare the new recruits.”
GJ: “That’s great. I love that… I mean, it’s just so interesting, and that makes sense. A lot of this stuff comes from real life experience. Then you have the Italians, which do just fantastical amounts of gore, where it’s like, “How unrealistic can we make this?” Even then, though, it’s good for a totally other reason.
“One more part to that last question — Where were those tunnels at? When Frank Novak’s going through the tunnels [with] all the pipes. Because I’ve seen those tunnels in at least three movies. Is that a popular place to shoot?”
AS: “Yeah, particularly for Corman. I think it might have been… a different part of the same facility where a lot of Brain Dead was shot, which is a water treatment plant.”
GJ: “Makes sense.”
AS: “And because it was a city-owned thing, it was one of the few — Because Roger never liked to let you have locations. We have a fair number of locations in that film, up into the high desert, but usually with Roger, everything’s got to be shot on stages at the old place. But I’m pretty sure that those tunnels were at that water treatment plant. It’s, like, literally a sewage [treatment facility].”
GJ: “Makes sense. All those pipes.”
AS: “But the geography — [shakes head] — I have to look again, but it’s not at all clear — What’s the geography of her facility? And where is all this hidden? And how has she hidden this beneath a chicken plant?”
GJ: “Listen, obviously they made a maze in case the T. rex escapes. It’s like the Minotaur, it can’t get out. It’s a failsafe.”
AS: “Exactly!”
GJ: “Alright, next question!
“There’s allusions to “bobcats” throughout the entire film, from the initial investigation of Meryl the Truck Driver’s death — they’re being like, “Hey, was it a bobcat?” “There hasn’t been a bobcat around here for years!” — to the battle between the T. rex and the two Bobcat skid steer loaders.
“I was wondering if there was any sort of significance to “bobcats” being mentioned numerous times, or if it’s just a lead up to the last fight.”
AS: “Partly, it’s just classic stuff of like, “What kind of creature could have done this?”... And it feeds into the idea that there aren’t any more bobcats out here, feeds into [Tiptree’s] whole idea about [how] man denuded the Earth of its natural predators, and all that.
“But then, yes, you know me from the other movies. I like to have every little thing connect to something else, and just use that rather than to say a mountain lion or something else, because these things are called bobcats, that’s called Bobcats.”
“So I don’t think I had any great meaning other than — I think the whole difference between a movie and life is that life is filled with loose ends, and it doesn’t all connect. But as Hitchcock used to say, “His movies are not a slice of life. They’re a slice of cake.” Everything is connected to everything else, and it just makes what is the “closed world” of that.”
GJ: “Give it that bookend.”
AS: “Yeah, so I don’t think there was any real serious intent, but the idea of a final battle with the Bobcats was in the very earliest scripts… I could already picture how to shoot that, and knew that we could do it, and that the cost of getting Bobcats would fit within Roger’s budget, even the smaller one.
“And, you know, obviously it’s a direct inspiration from the mech suit that Sigourney [Weaver]’s wearing.”
GJ: “The power loader.”
AS: “Yeah, the power loader. Yet this is natural, this thing’s here, and we’ve seen it all along. We know this is what’s there, this is the equipment. But also, the equipment that the environmentalists hate —”
GJ: “Is what saves the day.”
AS: “Is what has to save the day… Like, “Hey, you may not like this thing when it’s uprooting trees and tearing up the stuff you don’t want it to, but now you’ve got to face a dinosaur. Hop in the Bobcat!” [laughs] And the way they’re designed, they’re so cool… You could have the actor in it, then you could also have the stunt person in it, but because there’s a grill on the side, you couldn’t really see him. It was just really effective.
“That was planned certainly from the get-go, because I knew it would be Bobcats, then I could lace little references in the script.”
GJ: “Working backwards. Being like, Now I can just work up to it, AND punctuate it with the iconic line — “I hate wildlife.” The main theme of the movie! [laughs]”
AS: “[laughs] Because [Doc’s] on the opposite side [of the environmental debate].”
GJ: “Unfortunately for the T. rex, there were TWO Bobcats still in the valley.”
AS: “That’s right!”
GJ: “Alright, we already talked a lot about this, so this one — I’m just going to skip over a little bit… I was going to say that unlike movies with similar themes to Carnosaur, this one is different because it’s also a plague film, with women getting [pregnant] with dinosaurs [and] the C-section. We already talked about all that.
“I was going to ask if it was your idea or Roger Corman’s insistence to include the “belly burster” scene, but we already established that was all you.”
AS: “Yeah, that was the idea from the get go. I thought it’d be fun to interweave, in a way, an Andromeda Strain kind of thing — ala The Crazies, though — with the Jurassic Park element, and I liked the idea. It’s in the script.
“And it works, I think, in the film. Although a lot of people were like, “What was that?” From the get-go, you’re seeing these little superscripts — of the numbers of particles present… etc. — long before you realize this is going to be about also the virus. You’re getting the information, the data, and that everything is being looked at. As if maybe the government is watching this whole time, knowing what’s happening here, or is going to get it because they’re going to be into the weapon side of it, or whatever it is. It’s also part of what gives it that more sci-fi-ish thing. Starting right from the credit thing, where we’re going from Rich’s really visceral, real footage of real chickens, to those flowing lines of DNA strands, and RNA numbers, and stuff.
“Then the fact that there would be this countdown, and you don’t know what it’s counting down to — it’s the end of the movie.”
GJ: “You also included a bunch of people being sick all throughout the movie. You don’t really notice it until [way later]. Like, Oh, that’s actually a plot point!”
AS: “Right! When the doctor’s like, “Wow, I don’t know. Suddenly, everybody’s got flu in town.” And everybody at the diner is starting to get sick, and sneezing in the eggs. [laughs]”
GJ: “[laughs] Not that Clint Howard cared. He was like, “Give that to me!”
“Also, a great scene, too! How much of that was improvised?”
AS: “Anytime we’ve got a bunch of the Actors’ Gang folks, there are some [improvisions]. I think that’s David Sniaiko again who plays the cook at the diner, and he’s great. So there’s always a bit of that. I love to do that with the actors… You’re always going to want to have fun and just make it alive. I don’t know which particular lines were or weren’t [improvised], but we certainly always try to have a lot of fun with it.”
GJ: “I think about Clint Howard’s joke about the antlers on the baby, and stuff like that. [laughs]”
AS: “[laughs] I really like the idea that there’s something scary here that’s not what you’re expecting, because you know you’re coming into a dinosaur movie, but you don’t know you’re coming to a plague virus movie, too… Now we’re more used to that, obviously, after COVID, but even before that because of the zombie virus [films]... and Contagion, and movies like that. There hadn’t been a lot of that really since the original Andromeda Strain. I hadn’t seen much of that.”
GJ: “Yeah, I think Outbreak came out two years after Carnosaur.”
AS: “That’s right! They weren’t even talking about it, but I was reading about it already. I’d already read The Hot Zone, but they hadn’t make The Hot Zone movie yet. And reading about Ebola, and reading about all these — There was a book that was a big book at the time that I read called, like, The Coming Virus, or something like that. The Coming Something or Other.
“There was this big book about all these potential things that were coming to kill us that were various viruses, and stuff like that. So from the get-go, part of my idea was not just to make a scary movie about dinosaurs on the loose, but to actually have this bonus [sub-plot] running through the whole thing that actually, it’s also about — Oh! The Coming Plague! That’s what that book was called.
“Really great book that was written before The Hot Zone… It was around the same time that the original New Yorker articles that would become the book, The Hot Zone, came out. So I was reading all that stuff and going, That’s cool. Let’s have this quiet bed of that on the dinosaur thing, and we’re waiting to figure out, “How do these things connect?” Then realize they’re totally from the same thing.”
GJ: “You’re sitting there like, A dinosaur movie? Too easy! I want to challenge myself a bit. Let’s see what I can do! [laughs]”
AS: “[laughs] But it was also a way of making it easier on myself, because I knew I could have scary narrative elements that didn’t require the big dinosaurs.”
GJ: “That’s true. Honestly, the virus is scarier than the dinosaurs itself.”
AS: “To me, that was the point in the end. That, ultimately, the scariest is these government agents wearing hazmat suits coming [into] town and killing everybody.”
GJ: “They’re like, “How do we stop this virus? Have we tried shooting everybody? Well, let’s give it a shot! Let’s see what happens!”
AS: [as agents] “Let’s just do it!”
“That’s very much the nod to The Crazies, which I always thought was a terrifying idea that comes right out of Night of the Living Dead, too. But here, the idea was, “Doesn’t matter if they’re sick or not. We got to just wipe it out.”
GJ: “And even then, [with] the way the virus works, there’s going to be an unlimited supply of dinosaurs now. There’s no stopping it.”
AS: “Right.”
GJ: “Well, that’s the theory, at least. By Carnosaur 2, somehow all of that got stopped. They barely mention the [first movie’s events].”
AS: “I don’t know — How do they — What’s the premise of Carnosaur 2?”
GJ: “It was a group of engineers that go to work on this base in the middle of the desert, and there’s scenes straight out of Aliens in it. Like — You remember that scene where the pilot’s pulling up, and the alien’s behind her? There’s a scene like that, where a pilot’s pulling up a helicopter, and a Raptor comes from behind her.
“There’s all the characters. Rick Dean’s character is Hudson pretty much. The main government agent’s dressed exactly like Burke… It’s shameless with how much it likes Aliens, but it’s gorier, somehow.”
AS: “Of course, of course.”
GJ: “They don’t bring up the virus at all. They’re just like, “Oh yeah, there’s a scientist that made dinosaur eggs, and we kept them underneath the nuclear warheads in this fucking base.”
AS: “[as government agent] “Hey, I know! Let’s keep them down next to the warheads!”
GJ: “[as government agent] “What could go wrong!?”
“And Carnosaur 3 is, like, a bunch of soldiers go to a warehouse… and there’s two Raptors and a T. rex, and apparently the T. rex and Raptors are fucking and making more eggs? I don’t know.”
AS: “Oh! [laughs]”
GJ: “[laughs] They didn’t really think too much [about it]. The more [Carnosaur movies] you get, the more they don’t really think too much. It’s all about the dinosaurs.
“So I guess unless you write us, like, a sequel book or something, we won’t know what [truly] happens after Carnosaur. Probably just the end of the world.”
AS: “Exactly. Yeah, the end of the world… It would turn into something more Last of Us, you know?”
GJ: “Oh yeah, that’d be cool. Last of Us with dinosaurs. That sounds awesome, I love that.
AS: “Not mushrooms. Dinosaurs. Yeah.”
GJ: “There we go. I mean, dinosaurs make everything cooler.
“So once again, your friends and mine, the Eunice Corporation, show up to carry on their dastardly deeds, committing crimes against humanity. This offers a connection to your first film, Brain Dead, although it’s a bit murky — given that Doc is watching Brain Dead while having an on-shift nightcap.
“I was curious — What exactly is the continuity between the two films, if there is one? Also, I noticed that your portrayal of Eunice has gotten way more cynical since Brain Dead, with “artificial wombs” and them accepting contracts that allow mad scientists to bioengineer killer chickens without ANY company oversight.”
AS: “[laughs] Yeah.”
GJ: “Is it safe to say your views on corporate institutions grew even more critical in the years between the two films?”
AS: “No doubt, but it’s also just carrying on the sensibility of the first [film], because you remember… that moment in Brain Dead when Billy Paxton says, “From the tritium that feeds the rockets to the powdered milk that feeds the baby — we’re Eunice!”
“Which was very inspired by those ads they used to have for Beatrice — which was a food company — but they would have these ads going, “We’re Beatrice,” and would show rockets taking off, and this taking off, and baby food, and all this, and [I’d] be like, “What the FUCK? What the hell is this company?”
GJ: “Like, “You’re making food in the same place you’re making jet fuel?!”
AS: “Right! Because that was certainly one of the big developments. I’m not enough of a historian or an economist to understand when corporations went from mostly doing one thing, to becoming these mega-corporations that do all these different things.”
GJ: “I think it was around the 60s, if I remember correctly.”
AS: “Yeah! I still wanted to have some fun with that. At the same time, I loved the idea of the joking self-awareness of having Brain Dead in there, and of even seeing the Eunice symbol in there. It’s never commented on. I don’t know how to explain it. There is no explanation for how could it be that Eunice was real, even though it’s also there in a movie about it. I got no explanation. I just wanted to do it.”
GJ: “I think maybe it’s a little bit of a nod to the brain-puzzle-teaser-ness of Brain Dead. You know?”
AS: “Yeah! And again… it was also a way of also putting my signature on it, and kind of creating the Simon-verse.
“Eunice is the ultimate enemy. But yes, it goes much further in this, because Eunice is doing all these different things. They’ve got chicken plants, but they’re also doing this, and they’re doing blueberries, and they’re doing bio-weapons, and they’re doing artificial wombs, and they’re doing — they’re doing everything. I just thought that was fun.
“And… again, a nod to the 70s, and all the 70s paranoia that you see, even in those Corman films like Piranha and other ones — You know, when in doubt, blame it on the strange, evil multinational corporation.”
GJ: “Of course.”
AS: “I didn’t want to use Dr. No, or some crazy Goldfinger. It’s like, “Who believes that?” But oh, there’s a company out there that’s doing all that? “Sure, I buy that”.
GJ: “And now there’s corporations that are paying for movies. Now corporations are “cool.”
AS: “Oh yeah. Well, exactly. [rolls eyes] We’ve come a long way.”
GJ: “[sarcastically] Yeah, I know, right?”
AS: “But it was fun to get to do that, and to keep up the symbol and everything. You know, the little infinity sign.
“And I don’t know, I’m trying to remember if — I remember in the script, Doc is just sitting there, drinking, watching TV, but I don’t think that I put in the script that it was Brain Dead. Part of the thing with Corman was also — Oh! I know. So if you want to show someone watching TV, you either have to make that [fake show] — which I didn’t have time to — or you have to license what you’re showing. But with Roger, the rule always was you have to use something that you already own.
“So he’s going to be watching TV. [Corman] said, “You have to pick a Corman movie to put in there.” And I was like, “Well, then I’m going to put my own Corman movie in there.”
GJ: “Free advertising! [as Simon] “Go watch Brain Dead!”
AS: “Free advertising, remind people about that. Yeah, it was Raphael [Sbarge], who’s just lying there — He’s the one who just adlibbed, “Oh, I love this movie.” [laughs]”
GJ: “He’s sitting there, “Better a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. [laughs]”
AS: “[laughs] Exactly!”
GJ: “I always [liked] the scene where Fallon’s like, “Oh man, we’re fucked!” And then Vogel goes, “Not necessarily. We’ve been working on artificial wombs for years.” Just gets a laugh out of me every fucking time, especially when it cuts to the secretary just going like — [dramatic head turn, very concerned] “What do you mean ARTIFICAL WOMBS?” And the guy’s like, “Oh, that means we can make a better breed of humans!”
“I’m like, “Yeah, this is [accurate].”
AS: “This is it!... For context, to think of precisely — What-his-name’s character. Paul Riser. Whoever it is, the role of the corporation in Aliens. And in the first Alien, it’s already setting up this idea that these things are out there doing shit… for their own purposes. They’re not exactly worried about its impact on you or me.”
GJ: “It’s more like, “Hey, what if we give ourselves more power? The Xenomorph gives more power in the weapons market and what-not.”
AS: “Exactly. Now that would be like Palantir, or one of these Peter Thiel companies, or something.”
GJ: “Exactly. SpaceX.”
AS: “SpaceX! Exactly. [Elon] Musk is — He is so much like — He could be Jane Tiptree. He’s so much a character from what they say.”
GJ: “I know, right? I could see him trying to do that. I don’t think he’ll be as successful, but he definitely exudes that energy.”
AS: “Well, hey, not least of which in the idea that he’s literally trying to, like, breed a whole race of children.”
GJ: “Paying women, like, $500,000 or some shit.”
AS: “Hundreds of people were impregnated by him. It’s like, Oh my god! If that’s not in itself a crazy 60s, 70s sci-fi horror movie, I don’t know what is!”
GJ: “Yeah! That’s like one of those books from that one guy. The guy who made — what was it — I can’t remember [Giallo note: It was Robin Cook]. He made a bunch of medical horror books to turn into movies.
“But yeah, exactly like Demon Seed or something.”
AS: “Demon Seed! Exactly.”
GJ: “So, you know, fiction and real life do cross over a bit sometimes, even the weirder shit.”
AS: “Especially the weirder shit!”
GJ: “Exactly!”
PART THREE coming soon!
